tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7905515.post5743739868028159709..comments2024-03-14T11:09:32.759-05:00Comments on Falkenblog: Guilt Dominates ShameEric Falkensteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07243687157322033496noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7905515.post-70698736106947667962012-10-13T02:13:33.394-05:002012-10-13T02:13:33.394-05:00"Not sure what you're getting at with Poe...<br />"Not sure what you're getting at with Poe"<br /><br />This is the reference if I'm not mistaken:<br /><br />The Tell-Tale Heart<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/The_Tell-Tale_Heart<br /><br />Shadownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7905515.post-10973717771388182952012-10-11T09:57:31.087-05:002012-10-11T09:57:31.087-05:00Tel - since neither are present at birth that just...Tel - since neither are present at birth that just means the shameless simply haven't been taught.<br /><br />Not sure what you're getting at with Poe but maybe his bad guys are from an era where confessions motivated by shame weren't so implausible.<br /><br />Many forms of crime are very, very low in Japan (for instance) vs. the same categories here. I'm sure there are other trade-offs but I'd be surprised if the perceived risk of shame wasn't responsible for that to a considerable extent.Mercurynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7905515.post-29889503096754460302012-10-10T18:01:11.250-05:002012-10-10T18:01:11.250-05:00Jim Oliver: while you are teaching them economics,...Jim Oliver: while you are teaching them economics, also teach them managerial skills and accounting. That way at least they can be efficient criminals and reduce the collateral damage.<br /><br />Mercury: mate, the guilty have no shame.<br /><br />If I had to put faith in the police (who are far from perfect) or in Edgar Alan Poe where the bad guy just rolls over and confesses every crime -- I would choose the police.Telhttp://lnx-bsp.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7905515.post-49992666058925227392012-10-10T12:20:44.197-05:002012-10-10T12:20:44.197-05:00I have wondered if teaching prisoners economics wo...I have wondered if teaching prisoners economics would be a good thing. Even prisoners want there country to do well so pointing out the value destroyed by crime might help.JWOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00004178958481335795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7905515.post-31804196479212905302012-10-10T11:35:12.676-05:002012-10-10T11:35:12.676-05:00Very interesting.
I’m not so sure shame is obsole...Very interesting. <br />I’m not so sure shame is obsolete although clearly our culture has moved away from it: no one is ever intrinsically bad these days (except maybe Nazis, racists and child molesters) and heaven forbid someone actually feels badly about themselves or their self-esteem gauge dips below 9.5 because of something they have done. <br /><br />Despite the decline of organized religion guilt is still big. In fact I’d argue that religion (which I think most people are hard-wired for) hasn’t declined so much as things like Environmentalism have taken market share away from things like Catholicism.<br /><br />Asians generally have more of a shame culture than Westerners (except maybe Indians- Jewish mothers don’t have much on them in the guilt department…or education/family values either) but I still think it has its place in Western culture. It can probably be very effective as a threat even if it is very rarely deployed - similar to the way some people view spanking children. Do we really want to empty out the category of things that would cause you to feel badly about yourself for having done?<br /><br />It’s hard for me to disassociate this issue from the current cultural obsession with “self-esteem” though. Beyond some critical level I think higher self-esteem yields diminishing marginal returns. Not many people have higher self-esteem than me and I’m here to tell you: that PLUS $10 will buy you lunch.<br />Mercurynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7905515.post-75961935023121033552012-10-10T09:34:18.026-05:002012-10-10T09:34:18.026-05:00bernard williams's 'shame and necessity...bernard williams's 'shame and necessity' is a good philosophical source on shame vs. guiltAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12647353537882029979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7905515.post-58771159322765199012012-10-10T09:33:46.117-05:002012-10-10T09:33:46.117-05:00bernard williams's 'shame and necessity...bernard williams's 'shame and necessity' is a good philosophical source on shame vs. guiltAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12647353537882029979noreply@blogger.com